If you're reading this, then you're apparently curious regarding the individual known as "Pastor Frank" reference in my .signature file. Either that or you're using a mailreader/newsserver that automatically parses URLs and you've accidentally clicked on the link.

In any case, I've set up this little page to showcase the documented lies, fraud and arrogance of the USENET poster whom I know only as Pastor Frank.

First, I am referring to a specific individual who posts on various Christian newsgroups (including the alt.christnet heirarchy) and often crossposts his mindless and inane rants to alt.atheism. I am not referring to all Pastors named Frank in general, so if you know a Pastor named Frank it's likely that I'm not speaking of that particular person -- unless, of course, that particular Pastor Frank has a habit of lying and insulting others without just cause. Further, this page is neither an attack on Christians nor Christianity in general, despite what Pastor Frank might say in one of his typical lies. Honestly, I'm not entirely certain that Pastor Frank himself is a Christian, as he often acts like he's just a troll vying for attention by being as deliberately dishonest and insulting as possible. If that is the case, then he should be quite happy that I've set up this little page to document a few of his lies.

If you don't like long-worded and verbose explanations, or if you just want to skip right to the documentation of Pastor Frank's frauds, I'll present them right away.

Pastor Frank's false accusations:
Here is the post where Pastor Frank made the baseless accusation that I "hate democracy" in response to my pointing out that a person was appealing to a logical fallacy.
Here is the post where Pastor Frank called Alan Hobson a liar, when clearly Pastor Frank was mistaking the term "Xian Scientist" (shorthand for "Christian Scientist", often used to refer to members of the Church of Christ Scientist) as a slam against all workers of science who happen to be Christians. Pastor Frank has never apologized for this clearly false accusation, since it's quite obvious that Alan Hobson was NOT lying.
Here is where Pastor Frank called me a liar when it's clear that it was he who was mistaken and that my information was factual (as I documented in a reply).

Pastor Frank's documented lies:
Here is where Pastor Frank dishonestly quoted me out of context, completely distorting my statement (the proper, in-context statement is here).
Here is where Pastor Frank claimed that I've never provided any documentation for my accusations against them, calling my documented claims against him "lies" (No documentation? What do you call this webpage?).

Here is where Frank called me a liar over a demonstratably true claim -- either that or he was too stupid to actually explain what made my statement a lie. In any case, his accusation had nothing to do with the post that I had made to which he was replying.

If you prefer a more detailed explanation of the above citations, read on.

Who is Pastor Frank?

Honestly, I'm not sure. He posts from a newsserver in Ontario, Canada, and I assume that he lives there, but apart from that I have little personal information on the man. Honestly, given his Internet reputation, I doubt that I'd ever really want to know more about him. I can't say that he is a real pastor, and in fact I'm not entirely certain that he is a Christian -- I and others have hypothesized that he's really a non-Christian who pretends to be a follower of Christ in order to discredit the religion by acting in a completley obnoxious, arrogant and dishonest fashion. He's certanly received quite a bit of admonition from the other Christian posters of the newsgroups that he frequents. Interestingly enough, he has spoken of false Christians who claim to follow the teachings of Christ yet act in a fashion contrary to those teachings. He calls those people "minions of Satan". He has yet to respond to charges that he himself is a "minion of Satan" by his own definition, which means that either he's just dodging the issue because he knows that it is true or that his beliefs regarding a Christlike life involve lies and baseless insults.

I've traced Pastor Frank's USENET presence in alt.atheism to 1997, posting under the name "Frank Schierenberg", calling himself "Frank the Fundy", as can be seen in his first post to alt.atheism that I could find. Note that he was making the same bizarre conspiracy-theorist claims then as he does now. He used to be slightly more lucid in his postings and he offered more explanation for his beliefs, though the degeneration in to the mindless ranting and flaming that he does now wasn't exactly a steep drop. He still relied on the equivocation fallacy in his arguments for God, though he at least took the time to dress them up in pretty words rather than his current tactic of defining the Christian God as "love", then asserting that the existence of the Christian God is proven by the existence of "love", as though somehow that proves the entirety of the Bible and the divinity of Christ.

I've been told by at least one person (who many agreed is a documneted lunatic) that my claims against Pastor Frank are themselves dishonest. Of course, this person also made it clear that he was deliberately ignoring all of the evidence that I had provided. Do I have a personal grudge against Pastor Frank? Yes, I freely admit as much. However, I also have fully documented my claims against this fraud, and lest you question the context of any of the evidence I present, note that I provide links to USENET archives stored upon google.ca so that you may review all of my accusations with full context.

This is but a simple page, though. I'm not here to showcase all of Frank's lies, deceits, mistakes and shows of arrogance. This page only documents four of Pastor Frank's missteps: three false accusations and one blatant lie. I'm quite sure that he's told hundreds of other lies and I'm quite sure that he's made hundreds of other false accusations in the past and that he will make hundreds more in the future, but I doubt that I have the disk space available to document all of the lies and insults made by Pastor Frank (aka Pastor Fraud, aka Pastor Frank the Documented Liar aka Pastor Frank the Coward, etc).


I should start with the oldest of the incidents, and it's a brief blunder wherein Pastor Frank butted into a discussion to throw out an ad hominem at me, accusing me of hating democracy all because I pointed out that argument ad numerum was a logical fallacy. Somehow he mistook my explanation that the truth of an absolute proposition is not based upon the number of people who believe it as an attack against majority vote for decision making. I cannot imagine how he could have mistook my comments for such an attack. He has never responded with an explanation as to why he made that accustaion, and he's never apologized for it.

The attack started with my post here...

Where, in response to a claim that if Christianity is false then millions of people are wrong I said:

"The same is true if it is false that "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed was His Prophet". Argument ad numerum is a LOGICAL FALLACY."

Pastor Frank replied here

Where he said:

"You hate democracy, don't you? Though the majority occasionally can be wrong, a majority vote is NEVER a "logical fallacy"."

Of course, I never made a comment on "majority vote". I was speaking specifically of the fact that the "majority occasionally can be wrong". Frank's reponse was an unbased personal attack for which he has never apologized.

His second personal attack was lobbed against a posted named Alan Hobson. A discussion brewing on alt.atheism turned to the question of what religious people did that caused harm to others. It's rather well known tht a relatively small sect known as the "Church of Christ Scientist", also known as the "Christian Scientists", shun medical treatment on religious grounds. Alan Hobson expressed his disdain for that particular practice because of the harm infilcted when they refused medical treatment for their children in this post.

Note that he uses the shorthand "Xian" instead of "Christian", however he did capitalize the "S" in "Scientist". It should be quite clear to whom he is referring:

"I DO care when some Xian Scientist condemns their child to death by refusing a life saving treatment simply because it violates some weird interpretation of some obscure passage in a "holy" book."

Not exactly ambigious if you understand to whom "Xian Scientist" is referring, I think. Pastor Frank, however, just had to argue. His reply is here. Wherein he apparently mistook the reference to the Church of Christ Scientist and their prohobition against medical treatment with the Jehova's Witnesses and their prohibition on blood transfusions:

" Now you are also a liar, for no "scientist" Christian or otherwise promotes JW prohibition against blood."

Frank's mistake is pretty obvious, and many pointed it out to him. It's quite clear that Frank made a mistake. Of course, Frank isn't one to admit his mistakes. Pastor Frank is far too arrogant to ever admit his mistakes and far too dishonest to ever apologize for lobbing the false accusation that he made against Alan Hobson. In fact, he went so far as to claim in this post that the term "Christian Scientist" is

""Common usage" ONLY by atheists out to vilify all Christians. How better to make all research by real Christian scientists suspect, then to call believers in Christian Science, "Christian scientists"? A sly move by Satan's standards, but stupid in the eyes of God."

Note Frank's usage of a lowercase "s" in "Christian scientist". Feel free to check the relevant discussion threads, you will see that Pastor Frank is the ONLY person who used a lowercase "s" when using that term. Everyone else correctly capitalized the "S" in "Scientist". It's pretty obvious that Frank is trying to muddy the issue by ignoring the capitalization of the word "Scientist" in the title, because acknowledging it weakens his point. Of course, Frank is wrong here, as someone brought up this website created by a member of the Church of Christ Scientist that uses the very term that Frank claims is an atheist invention. Then again, perhaps Pastor Frank is claiming that Christian Scientists are really atheists. It's not exactly a believable claim, but Frank isn't known for making believable statements.


On to Frank's third documented personal attack, this one directed at me again. Another poster who goes by the name Pastor Dave (who seems significantly less dishonest than Pastor Frank, though that really isn't difficult) was arguing the place of evolution in public school science cirriculums. His argument was that evolution is a religion and that it should be treated as such, but this page isn't about Pastor Dave or his claims, this page is about exposing the documented fraud known as Pastor Frank. The incident started with me replying to Pastor Dave's claim that only atheists were upset by the removal of evolution from the science cirriculum of Kansas public schools (an incident that occured in 1999). Pastor Frank, however, either misremembered the facts of the case or he was just trying to argue (given how proven he is to be a liar, it's hard to say which is true), because Pastor Frank claimed that I was telling "Another lie for atheism". Of course, since my comments were factual, I had no idea to what Frank was referring. I replied, asking Frank for some idea of what he thought was going on, admittedly sounding a bit confrontational, because by this time I was aware of how much of a documented liar Frank was. Pastor Frank finally explained himself in a reply posting where he called me a liar based upon this absolutely laughable claim:

" You are still busy lying for atheism, as always. The vote was about whether to include creation in the curriculum, not whether to exclude evolution."

Not only did he see fit to call me a liar, even though I wasn't lying, but he added this lovely little ad hominem:
"Now put on your dunce cap and sit in the corner till I tell you to move."

What a jerk, eh? Notice how he assumes right away that I'm lying, he doesn't even consider the possibility that I might have just been making a mistake (and he'd certainly never entertain the thought that he could be wrong). Of course, I wasn't wrong and I posted a reply with a URL for a CNN.com article that proved that I was telling the truth. Frank, of course, has never admitted his error and he has never apologized for calling me a liar even though it's very clear that I was not lying. Frank is an arrogant, dishonest jerk.

Of course, so far I've only presented examples of Frank's false accusations. I've not quite shown a case of true, genuine blatant dishonesty. I do have one of those. Remember Frank's claim regarding the Church of Christ Scientist, and the term "Christian Scientist" being common usage only amongst atheists? Well, I threw that claim back into his face one day, refuting it with a link to the aforementioned Christian Science website. Note this particular quote of mine:

"I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term "Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of Christ Scientist only by atheists in an attempt to disparage non-sect members who happen to be both scientists and Christians."

It's pretty clear what I'm saying here. Further, I've already shown where Frank made exactly the claim I attribute to him. Frank, however, doesn't like being proven wrong. He decided that he didn't like what I said, because it was true and because its truth made him look bad, so he decided to change what I said. He cut my quote short so that it looked as though I was saying:

" I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term "Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of Christ".

As you can see, Frank dishonestly cut my quote and presented it completely out of context. He then claimed that he never said "any such thing", pretending that his dishonestily abbreviated quote from me was the full quote, and pretending that I had made a completely different statement. Frank lied about me, changing the context of my words and lying about their intended meaning in an act of blatant and malicious dishonesty. Frank has never apologized for lying about my words in this way, and I know that he never will.

How do I know that Frank will never apologize for his lies or his false accusations, even though they've been thorougly documented and exposed? I offered to donate $500 to the charity of his choice were he to do so.

I knew that I was dealing with a dishonest little snot, so I laid out very strict, but in my opinion fair, terms for the deal. Frank would apologize for each of the three aforementioned false accusations and the one documented lie in four seperate USENET postings, each made to the same newsgroups in which the false accusation or lie originally occured. He would have to use the name of the person to whom the apology was addressed in the subject line of the posting, and he could not use the posting to make a personal attack against any individual or against any group. In return, I would make a $500 donation to the charitable organization of his choice, with the only requirement being that I could receive a receipt for my donation, as it would serve as proof that I upheld my end of the bargain. I did not ask him to disparage any individual, I did not ask him to deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, nor did I ask him to deny any theological tenent in which he has expressed belief nor did I ask him to endorse any theological tenent that he might find contradictory to his religious beliefs. Honestly, I did expect him to lie and claim that I had asked for at least one from that list, but apparently even that would be coming too close to addressing his documented dishonesty, so he hasn't touched the issue.

I was fully prepared for two things when I made the deal. First, I was prepared to pay the $500 should Frank come clean and apologize for his misstatements. Second, I was prepared that I would never have to pay the $500, because I was so certain that Frank would be far too dishonest and arrogant to ever admit that he was wrong. Not only would he have to admit that he has made false accusations and not only would he have to admit that he lied, but he would have to face the possibility that an atheist would actually make good on a bargain. Frank loves to lie about atheists, he has all kinds of lovely and horrible things to say about them. Frank would never put himself in a position where he would have to admit that an atheist made good on a bargain. Then again, Frank is a documented liar, so he could just pretend that the proof (the scanned receipt) did not exist, even though the terms of my offer would have had me putting a URL to it into my USENET .signature file for at least two months. I was putting myself in serious risk. Not only was I risking $500, but I was also putting my accusations against Pastor Frank on the line. I had stated flat out that Pastor Frank would NEVER own up to his lies nor to his libel, no matter what incentive. Pastor Frank could have simply acknowledged ONE of the documented examples of his dishonesty and, while it would not have satisfied the conditions of the challenge, it would have made me into a liar. I was staking quite a bit on my firm belief that Pastor Frank is far too dishonest to EVER admit his mistakes, regardless of the circumstances. Fortuntely, I was right.

I posted the challenge on Friday, Feburay 14, 2003 in the discussion thread in which Frank had made his false accusation against me regarding the Kansas school board decision. I honestly wasn't sure if Frank was going to read the thread over the weekend, and I hadn't expected a response until Monday. I had intended to post the challenge in its own thread with some further clarifications on the following Monday, but Pastor Frank came through earlier than expected, completely disregarding the challenge, claiming that his interest is "ONLY in Jesus Christ and our relationship with Him." Apparently, for Pastor Frank, that relationship involves lying about other people and never admitting mistakes, because that's exactly what he's done.

One final note. Pastor Frank finally, on Febuary 17, responded to my claims against him. He did not respond to apologize, mind you. Pastor Frank, being Pastor Frank, let loose yet another blatant and damnable lie, claiming that I've never actually provided documentation of his assertions. Nevermind that I drove a few Christian newsgroups crazy for a short time when I followed up every post that he made with documentation of several of his acts of dishonesty.



Update: Febuary 21, 2003

Pastor Frank has lobbed yet another mindless and false accusation against me! This time he calls me a liar without even specifying what my lie is!

I've admittedly been following Pastor Fake around some of the religious newsgroups in which he posts and repeatedly presenting my accusations (with a link to this page for the documentation so that I don't take up lots of bandwidth by posting the same long explanations over and over again) so that others who converse with him can see what a liar and a fraud he really is (I've given up hope of him EVER admitting his mistakes or showing any level of honesty or humility, since he's proven that he's a dishonest and arrogant coward). One recent posting had me questioning why anyone should believe what Pastor Frank the Coward has to say about Christ given that Frank has been so dishonest about so many other subjects in the past (note that I'm not questioning Christianity or Christians in general, I am only questioning the authority of one man who happens to be a documented liar). Frank responded, claiming that I was lying for atheism. How was I lying for atheism? He explained:

"Some more lying for atheism Keenan? You are posting to nothing but Christian NGs. Alt.atheism isn't included. Weren't you the guy who accused Christians of posting to a.a.? LOL You always get caught in your lies, don't you?"

Looks like he got me. Clearly he refuted my words:

"You're lying again, Frank the Documented Fraud. You've openly "discussed" the shortcomings of other people without provocation -- even going as far as to make up shortcomings about myself and Alan Hobson.

Really, with you lying so much, why should we trust anything that you have to say about Christ, Pastor Frank the Coward?"

That is, if by "refuted" one means "replied to with a complete non-sequitur". Not only did Frank completely ignore the issue raised in my post, but he is calling me a liar over something that he's not even refuting. Yes, I did say that Christians post to alt.atheism. Frank did not show in any way, shape or form that my statement was false (and he can't since my statement is true). I did notice that I was only posting to Christian newsgroups at the time of my posting, but I did not claim in that posting that the thread appeared in alt.atheism. Frank may be referring to some mythical claim that atheists never post in religious groups unless replying to a thread that has been crossposted to alt.atheism, but I've never made such a claim. I have claimed that Christians tend to preach in alt.atheism more often than atheists attack Christianity in Christian newsgroups, and I stand by that claim -- Frank didn't challenge that, nor has he ever attempted to refute it. Frank is so desperate to avoid his own lies and dishonesty that now he's calling me a liar over statements that I've made without even claiming that the statements are false. Some suspect that Frank is clinically insane, and I'm starting to agree. He's so caught up in his fantasy world that he deliberately ignores facts and reality itself in order to maintain his preconceived definitions of "Frank always right" and "atheists always liars". Frank is clearly a nutcase.

Update: Febuary 28, 2003

Frank appears to have experienced a complete nervous breakdown, though I can only speculate as to the cause. Perhaps he's come to realise that even other Christians recognize him as a liar and fraud (and by that I do not mean that it is a sudden revelation amongst the Christians who have seen his antics but rather that he's finally had so many tell him to his face that he cannot deny it to himself any longer). Maybe he's run out of excuses and lies to use when confronted with documentation of his past mistakes and dishonest. Perhaps something just snapped in his brain. In any case, he's now taken to replying to any thread that is crossposted amongst religious newsgroups in addition to alt.atheism with

"You are still using a.a. as a platform to cross-post hate into our Christian NGs. TRIM YOUR HEADER we don't want to see your atheist hate propaganda in our pristine Christian NGs."

You can see it here, though the thread is filled with responses like that. He ignores all of the evidence that proves him to be a liar or a hypocrite and just yells at the regulars of alt.atheism to stop crossposting to "pristine" religious newsgroups.

Of course, the crossposting wouldn't be a problem if Frank hadn't initiated them in the first place. Both of the threads where I have observed him going on this ranting rampage originated in Christian newsgroups and were not crossposted to alt.atheism. They were not crossposted to alt.atheism until Frank himself crossposted them. Frank is now ranting and raving and complaining about an issue that he started. Why is Frank resorting to such an obvious act of hypocracy? I do not know. It looks as though he has finally been backed into a corner, confronted completely with his lies so now he is whining and crying about the crossposting that he himself initiated.

Oh, don't just take my word for it. The thread "Why argue with those who don't believe" was originated only in alt.christnet.theology. The massive crossposting to various other religious newsgroups and alt.atheism was initiated by Pastor Frank himself. Check the "Newsgroups" header in the former linked post and note that alt.atheism is not listed. The latter linked post is Frank's direct response to it, and you can see that he added alt.atheism to the Newsgroups distribution.

The other thread, "An honest question", began only in alt.christnet.philosophy. It wasn't until Pastor Frank followed up that the thread appeared in various other newsgroups, including alt.atheism (note also, in that message, that Frank accuses someone of being an anti-semite because they asked a question regarding the Old Testament while Frank has stated that he believes that the Old Testament is to be ignored by Christians). In both threads, Frank has broken down to ignoring the content of any post made by an atheist and simply demanding that they cease the crossposting that he started ( here and here).

See for yourself. Frank is ranting and raving about a problem that he started, once again blaming innocent atheists for his own mistakes.

That's not all. Frank finally addressed the existence of this compiled documentation against him as well as the Kansas school board vote. Confronted with a Christian on the issue of my documentation of his lies, he admits that he flat-out ignores all of my evidence for my assertions of his behaviour because it does not "glorify Christ". What a brilliant method of "refutation by ignorance". He continues to claim that I'm lying about him, yet he hasn't even bothered to examine what I've presented to support my assertions.
That's not all. On the matter of the Kansas school board vote, he claims to have "read some different reports about Kansas etc. which negate Keenan and his "evidence"". Oddly, while I not only provided a URL (several, in fact) for news stories that supported my assertion but I also quoted relevant sections of text when doing so, he's not provided a single citation from a single alleged "report". Strangely, he thinks that my documentation should be ignored while his assertions without evidence should be accepted as unquestionable fact. As for what he thinks of my assertions, he stated that "It sounded to me, that the reporter writing that piece has atheist sympathies which in my books make them automaticall suspect of being lies". How convenient, defining evidence that refutes his assertion as being suspected lies. Rather than actually show how my documentation is faulty, he merely asserts that it cannot be trusted because of some alleged "atheist sympathies". Mind you, this came AFTER he made several assertions that there is no statewide "Kansas school board", going so far as to call me a liar over the matter, even though it was explained to him more than once that there is in fact such a board. It's possible that the proof that he was wrong by the citation of the website of the very organization that he claimed was nonexistent was what caused his recent breakdown, as his response to the article where that website was referenced shows him ranting and raving over the crossposting that he started.

Update: March 7, 2003

Frank certainly hasn't repented of his hypocritical and dishonest ways. I did a bit of research into his posting history. First, he's still ranting and raving about the crossposting that he started and he's still blaming everyone except himself for it.
Second, it appears that my exposing of his lies within Christian newsgroups has had something of an effect. I admit, I'm a but pushy and decidedly obsessive about exposing Frank as the liar that he is, but at least a few Christians have spoken up in agreement of my accusations against the man. Of course, Pastor Frank doesn't see that as a sign that he might have a problem. Rather, he sees any agreement that he is less than perfect as a sign that someone is a lying atheist, or at least on the path to becoming one.
Even though I openly invite anyone, including Frank, to read this page and expose any lies that might be present, Pastor Frank has openly admitted that he has no plan to examine the evidence that I've put against him because nothing here serves to "glorify Christ". I admit that my intent here is not to glorify Christ (though Frank might try to claim that I'm trying to attack Christ, I personally believe that there is nothing on this little page that is inconsistent with a belief that Jesus Christ is lord and savour of all mankind). Apparently someone who posts under the name "Jack" believes that, in a way, this page does glorify Christ in exposing the lies of someone who so clearly hates the Gospel (the poster's words, not mine). That notion was seconded by another poster, "Aaron". Frank, of course, decided that their agreement was meaningless because, as he stated it, they are both atheists. Once again Frank demonstrates that it isn't the message that counts, but the messenger. In this case, however, Frank is even wrong about the messenger. I checked into posting history of "Jack" and the posting history of "Aaron" and I cannot find any evidence that they are atheists. I see that they disagree with some theists on theological issues, but that hardly makes them atheists. Frank apparently decided to call them atheists simply because they agree that my evidence against him has merit, then he hypocritically demanded that they stop posting on Christian newsgroups when Frank himself is a notorious pest on alt.atheism.

There's more. Frank apparently decided that my e-mail address, "darkstar@iglou.com", completely discredits all that I say. I guess that he realises that while he refuses to view the evidence that I have compiled against him, other Christians will review the site and see that what I have to say is true, so he's now resorting to bizarre personal attacks on my e-mail handle rather than addressing any facts. He also makes some strange claim that I'm a friend of the poster "Pope Dilbert" (I hold no animosity toward Pope Dilbert, but I hardly know him well enough to call him a friend) and that have no doubts as to the validity of the title of "Pope", which is quite bizarre since I've never addressed Pope Dilbert's name. I think that Pastor Frank is confusing me for someone else, which has happened before (note that not only did he not apologize for his mistake in that post, but he makes the documented lie, as shown above, that he did not initiate the crossposting in any of the threads where he later complained). Mark K. Bilbo has repeatedly asked Pastor Frank about his credentials as a Pastor. The most that Frank has ever claimed is that he is a "lay pastor", though he refuses to provide the name of the church that recognizes him as such. While I find it rather odd that a Pastor refuses to name the church for which he works, I've typically not gotten very involved in that debate. Apparently Pastor Frank is trying to throw an argument that he's had with someone else onto me. Not the first time, of course, as he once demanded that I apologize to a poster called "Chain Smoker", yet I had no recollection of lobbing any accusations against Chain Smoker (feel free to check the thread and point out if I am mistaken). He never responded to my questions of exactly why I should apologize. If you check the thread you will see that a rather nasty accusation was made against Chain Smoker, but I was not the one who made it, nor did I actively support it in any way -- the closest that I got was replying to a post by Pastor Frank where he demanded that the person who initially made the accusation apologize, and I did not offer any commentary on the accustaion in question, I merely pointed out that it was hypocritical for him to demand that someone apologize for making a false accusation when he has never apologized for his own.

It's rather obvious that he's just too much of a coward to admit that he made a mistake, so he's inventing all kinds of bizarre and unbelievable fictions in order to hide his error.

Oh, wait, there's one more thing! Remember his assertions regarding the usage of the term "Christian Scientist"? Remember how it started when Alan Hobson made a reference to the sect? Apparently Frank's memory is faulty, as he is now accusing ME of inventing the term, still blatantly ignoring the documentation that he has been repeatedly shown that the term is used by members of the sect to describe themselves. Pastor Frank really needs to keep his dishonesty in order, as he's losing track of those to whom he's lobbed his false accusations.

I hope that this little page has been informative for you, and I hope that you now understand why the poster Pastor Frank is clearly a lying, dishonest troll who cannot be trusted with anything. I've often speculated that he isn't even a Christian, but instead is someone trying to make Christianity look bad by pretending to follow Christ while acting in a completely un-Christlike fashion. I cannot say for certain, but rest assured that I do not judge all of Christianity by the acts of the lunatic known as Pastor Frank. Just bear in mind that there are always nutcases like him giving a bad name to whatever cause they claim to represent, even if the cause itself is just.

Update: June 12, 2004

A poster on a Christian newsgroup by the name of Albert has objected to this little webpage, calling it "slanderous" (which is interesting, because slander is spoken). He says that it "proves" only that I am hateful and arrogant. Oddly, he didn't bother to address a single thing that I've posted here, he just made a blanket declaration and ran off. I've since asked him to further explain what he thinks is wrong with what I have here, pointing out that I do try to extensively document my claims against Pastor Frank the Lying Coward. We'll see if he ever bothers to defend his accusations against me or if, like Pastor Frank, he's full of insults and hate but is too much of a coward to back up his claims. Feel free to check up on the thread to see if he ever replies with documentation for his accusations.

Update: June 16, 2004

I've seen that Pastor Frank has finally admitted his mistake regarding the term "Christian Scientist". Of course, in that very same posting he claimed that I was putting them down, which means that he didn't bother to do any fact checking or he's just outright lying again (Alan Hobson was the one who commented on them, speaking against their doctrinal prohibtion against medical treatment). He also doesn't seem to want to admit that he is the one who sent things spiraling downhill with his steadfast refusal to admit his mistake (to the point of lying to cover it up). Still, that's probably as close a concession that I'll see from the man. I've explained to him that if he only now apologizes for accusing me of hating democracy, apologizes for quoting me out of context and lying about my statement, acknowledges his mistake regarding the Kansas Board of Education vote on evolution in the public schools and apologizes for calling me a liar over it and explains exactly why he said that I needed to apologize to Chain Smoker, I'll take this page down and put up a full apology.

I'm not holding my breath.